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April 10th, 2004
12:19 am - Last Class!!! - Leanne Ramirez
Recorder: Leanne Ramirez
Group Members: Alexandra Schindel, Irene Iakossavas, Leanne Ramirez, Heather Nelson
Required Readings: none because it was the last day of class so we decided to do something different!!!
Today our group was to discuss issues involved in making a syllabus for a course on women in Asian religions using our “discussion sheet” as a guide for our discussion.
The beginning of our discussion began with how we enjoyed the RLG 236, and we were happy that “Three and a Half,” had a chance to get together. We were all quite pleased to be working together and, even though no one knew what our group name meant, we had a great time being part of it!
Irene began our discussion by asking the question to everyone, “What is the course’s title?” We verified our class title, “Women and Asian Religions,” and decided to change it because we felt that we did not learn enough about religion itself. Irene made note that because the lectures are only one hour long, we could not thoroughly discuss the religion and used Confucianism as an example. We all felt that the video on women and Confucianism did not really tell us about the religion itself. Rather it told us about the social aspects that Confucian women have to face everyday. It told us what women had to do, but not about the religion. Alex claimed that in comparison to other religion classes, we only learned the absolute basic of the religion. I brought up the suggesting of naming the course, “The Presentations of Women in Asian Liturature,” which I reneged on instantly because I felt that it was straying too far off what we were trying to achieve. Irene noted that we would exclude the usage of videos. Irene then proposed the notion of “Gender In Asian Religions.” Heather agreed and said that it should not just be about women. Our course not only focused on women, but also on men. “You can’t really know what the women’s place is without knowing the man’s place,” claimed Irene. Religion, claimed Heather, is based on the relationship between the man and the women, so we necessarily have to incorporate men. Irene proposed that our title be “Gender Roles in Asian Religion,” which we all agreed on, but felt the need to keep discussing further titles anyway?!
I said that I liked the name, “Gender and Sexuality in Asia.” But everyone, because of the lack of religion in the title immediately shut this down. I said that sexuality has a big part of religion, but Alex said that the only religion that sexuality really played a part in was Buddhism, where the male and female could switch sexes. We decided to go back to the title that Irene proposed, “Gender Roles in Asian Religion,” and decided to focus the rest of the syllabus on this. This is because there are so many different areas that we could discuss that would be relevant to our course and what we found interesting. We needed to keep structure and our course title did that for us.
Heather jumped ahead for a second and said that we have to ensure to incorporate texts written by males if our course is about gender. I made note that religious sacred texts IS the male perspective. Alex said that we are focusing on gender roles and not only on women or men, and Heather agreeed claiming that as long as we have men and women writing about the same thing, our reader will be relevant. Alex proposed that we could have a comparison for the tests in our course.
We then decided to discuss the focus of our course:
Irene claimed that our focus should be women’s participation in religion in relation to men. We were given three options on our discussion sheet and decided to eliminate the last one: A study of how Asian women themselves have transformed their religious traditions with the rise of feminism in the contemporary world. We felt that this was far too complicated and considering that we found this class very enjoyable… we would lose this factor.
We decided to go with the first option that stated that our focus would be: A survey of Asian religious traditions with a focus on women’s participation. Alex claimed that we should focus on women today. Thus we changed the title of our course to, “Gender Roles in Asian Religion Today.” She brought up the good point that in every single discussion that we had this year, our group struggled with the fact that we cannot compare anything with today. We have to consider that social and economic changes have drastically affected the lives of women everywhere. So we decided that our texts would be contemporary.
What are the main goals of this course?
I proposed that our main goals would be that students should have a general exposure to the main doctrines and practices of Asian religious traditions and that we should improve our discussion skills. Alex claimed that she really enjoyed these courses discussions. I agreed and added that the discussions were really fun along with reading blogs as well. I enjoy reading the blogs because you can really see people’s personality in the blogs. I also noted that it would be unreasonable for a course to incorporate all the religions in Asia because there are so many religions with only few followers that “it would take all four years of our undergrad to cover them all!!!” Also, geographically wouldn’t work because Buddhism is everywhere claimed Alex. Irene added that we would just be repeating what we learned over and over. We all agreed that we should only cover the main and largest ones. And although we did not discuss this, I assumed that Christianity or Protestantism was not going to be incorporated even though it is a main religion in the east. This is because these are main religions here in the west also (Ladies, correct me if I’m wrong). Alex liked how our course “kinda went through all the [main] religions and kinda went geographically. It started with India and then went to Northern Asia.” We all agreed. My only disappointment was that when we spent a long time on a religion (i.e. Buddhism), and we learned a lot of it, but did not cover the fat Buddha. He is so prominent and seen in many places all over Toronto especially in China Town. I thought it would be interesting if we studied him. Heather agreed because she was given a fat Buddha as a gift, but unfortunately cannot tell the history of it. I guess Heather and I have to do some research on our ownJ!
What types of topics will be covered and how will they be organized?
Our discussion then turned into how we would format the class. Irene posed the option of having two classes: one class devoted to lecture and then one class for discussion. We would consequently meet twice weekly. I claimed that I liked the fact that I did not have to come to class twice and another person (who will remain nameless), claimed that she does not go to one of her other classes because it is two days in the week. This is a common view of many university students. We all claimed that we really enjoyed the class, but that it was really rushed.
We decided to do a few well-known Asian religions (i.e. Hinduism and Buddhism). We want to study the ones that mostly affect the society. Irene claimed that the top three religions dictate what is happening to the minorities. It is very important that the large religions are studied.
What types of reading will be assigned?
We had four options given to us in the handout. We decided against using only texts by women and/or only texts that are about women because our course is about gender. We did not like the idea of having only classical texts because (and I am inferring here) we did not want to be restricted to only one point of view. We want to incorporate many different aspects and opinions and we would be eliminating this voice if we stuck to classical texts. For this reason, we also eliminated readings that were on feminist theories/gender theories. Irene claimed that she wanted texts that would give a background of what the religion is. All members of the group agreed a mixture of source texts, textbook-style articles and contemporary texts to be included in our assigned readings. This way we can get a bit of interpretation of the classical texts. Irene claimed that it would be interesting to include what the religion is in lecture, and then discuss the interpretations during deliberations.
What assignments will be required? What will the course’s format be?
We all decided that there would be no tests!!! This was the first thing out of all our mouths! Ha! Three and a Half found blogging quite enjoyable. I noted that I took pleasure in the blogs especially because when you read them over, you can really pick out who is writing it. People’s personalities really showed in their blogs. We noted that we decided against tests and that we really liked blogging, but we could not run a university class on just this. I proposed group presentations and blogging together. We finally agreed that the best way to do this would be to have 6 lectures and 7 presentations. The presentations would be done by groups on their chosen Asian religion (no two groups could do the same religion). A group would present (instead of lecture) and students would go home and blog individually. This would mean that a blog was due every week. It would not have to be as long or as detailed as they are in this class because they are so frequent. It would just have to be one’s thoughts on the presentation and the religion that is being discussed.
Three and a Half had a great time this semester. We all got along very well. During discussions, people respected everyone else’s opinion and encouragement of different opinions on the subject was predominant. This made us all think a little differently. We all agreed that we enjoyed the course and would definitely take it again. We became friends over the semester. This is noted in how we could occasionally stray off topic because we are catching up from the week before (although we always found a way to conclude our discussion). I think I can speak for us all when I say that we all would take the class again! This closed the end of our discussion.
Unfortunately, all good things come to and end… so adieu, adieu Three and a Half, I wish you all the best. I hope that we get to work together again in the future!
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April 9th, 2004
10:13 pm - Irene Iakossavas ... Course Syllabus
Irene Iakossavas
Last Discussion! L
Present: Alex, Heather, Leanne
Topic: Course Syllabus. No readings required.
This last discussion had a different objective. We all became a little excited when the professor challenged us to come up with our own religion course. At first, I’ll admit, I thought it was going to be a fairly easy task, especially when we were given a list to help facilitate our discussion. Yet, as we all put our heads together to come up with the perfect course, I realized it definitely was harder than I anticipated.
I think what I’m going to try and do is report on our discussion and give a general ‘feel’ to what all group members wanted this course to be. Then I will attempt to write a formal course syllabus.
We all first tried to come up with a title. We suggested a few ideas, but then it was established that if we were to talk of women’s status in religion, it would always be compared to male status. We went through the list and decided that none of the options on the list really “fit” what we wanted to talk about. I suggested integrating subject matter concerning both genders as part of the course subject matter, instead of just focusing on women. Heather mentioned that a lot of religions focus on the relationships between a man and woman. At that point we titled our course “Gender Roles in Asian Religions.” We all felt it was important to incorporate what duties or rituals were required of both sexes. You can’t really talk about one without discussing the other, so why not make it part of the class? Heather pointed that we didn’t have to focus solely on feminist interpretations of Asian religions but that we could use texts from both the female and male perspectives. Leanne also pointed out that most academic research is authored by men. Alex suggested that in our course we could also compare and contrast male and female interpretation of Asian Religions.
We then moved on and decide that we would like to focus on contemporary issues dealing with gender roles in Asian religions. This was Alex’s suggestion. Leanne (or was it Alex? Or Heather? This recording is not helping!) then realized and pointed out that we should then title the course then should naturally change to “Gender Roles in Asian Religions Today.”
Leanne then realized that we unfortunately could not cover all the religions in Asia, because to do so in detail would require a full Hon.B.A. We then thought that we should organize this course by religious tradition and focus on Buddhism, Hinduism kind of left the third theme up in the air.
We also felt that we were ‘rushed’ into absorbing material about the various religions, leaving us to further assert to only lecture on three religions. However, we all enjoyed the discussion aspect of the class. We were left with a problem as to how to incorporate as much lecturing information with discussion groups. Leanne and I then pitched the idea of having group presentations. We agreed that the group presentations should focus on other religions besides the ones that were to be lectured by the professor. Our group also enjoyed the public format of the blogs, Leanne and Alex thought it was best to keep the idea of blogging because it enabled all students to find out about other student’s perspectives. Leanne suggested that students were to keep individual blogs and comment on each presentation. She likened it to a journal entry, only on-line. The presentations would constitute a major percentage of the final grade. Participation and blogging would come afterwards. Alex pointed out that she, like other students, are not exactly fans of public speaking. Leanne pointed out that in the term “group presentation” the word “group” took precedence. For example, Alex could write up more than talk and someone else could present her information. Presentations should also allow for questions from students.
Can anyone tell that we did NOT want to write tests in this course? J Thinking about it now, though, putting together a presentation with people you hardly know is probably harder and more enjoyable than writing a test.
COURSE SYLLABUS
“GENDER ROLES IN ASIAN RELIGIONS TODAY”
FOCUS:
The focus of this course is to study contemporary Asian religions and traditions with on focus on both the male and female participation in them.
GOALS:
Students will have a general exposure to the main doctrines and practices of Asian religious traditions. They will also improve discussion and co-operative skills in a highly collaborative environment. Text analysis will be developed through the readings of contemporary articles and books.
READINGS:
The professor will be the main source of background information, such as classical doctrines. A mixture of source texts and text-book style articles are used within this course.
FORMAT:
The class is separated into two components. The first lectures will be delivered by the professor on the two major religions in Asia: Buddhism and Hinduism. Another religion will be determined by the professor.
Student groups will be assigned at the beginning of the semester to research various other religions and are required to deliver a presentation. These presentations will constitute 50% of the mark. Students will be able to consult with the professor before presentation is given in order to ensure that students will be able fulfill expectations. These presentations will take place once lectures are finished. Groups are also required to submit a group blog, where text of the presentation can be accessible to students and professor, in order to reference back to material. Groups will
All members of the class are required to maintain individual blogs. These blogs must be completed each week when presentations take place. Students will comment on each presentation. Comments should include: reactions to information; critique of the presentation, etc. Comments will not affect a group’s grade. Students are also encouraged to participate in class through questions and comments. Comments should also reflect on the weekly readings. Students will also comment on the professor’s lectures enabling them to question material presented.
ASSIGNMENTS:
Group Presentation 50%
Individual Blogs 30%
In-Class Participation 20%
Total 100%
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April 3rd, 2004
12:00 am - Shamanism
Shamanism (Religions in Korea and Japan)
Recorder: Alexandra Schindel
Group Members: Alexandra Schindel, Irene Iakossavas, Leanne Ramirez, Tessy John,
Heather Nelson
Required Readings: Harvey, chapters two and four from Six Korean Shamans,
Nakamura, “No Women’s Liberation”
This week’s lecture and discussion was based on Shamanism, a religion in Japan and Korea. All the other religions we have studied so far in this course have been seen as World Religions. Although these World Religion’s have all been centered in Asia, through globalization these religions have been brought to new places in the world and have therefore had an impact on more then just Asia. However, the same cannot really be said about Shamanism. I can’t speak for all in the group, but Shamanism had never crossed my mind as being a religion. Therefore, our approach to talk about this religion was very different and did not quite follow the same rhythm as the other discussions did. Unfortunately, I accidentally erased our discussion that was on my tape recorder and seeing that I only took a few notes, I may not be able to sum up our discussion very adequately. So I shall do my best at remembering and summarizing what we talked about.
The first questions we decided to tackle were, “how can we, as people from a culture that typically does not believe in spirit possession interpret the shaman’s possession sicknesses? How would a person who exhibited such symptoms of ‘spirit possession’ in North America be understood?” Tessy began by disagreeing that our culture does believe in spirit possession. What she meant by this was that our culture is not really a culture. Canada and most of the Western world has become so diverse that you cannot summarize people in Canada, in Toronto, or even in our religion classroom, as being from one culture. Leanne mentioned that we define our culture as a Western culture that is dominated by science and therefore we do not believe in spirit possession because we cannot scientifically prove that someone is possessed. However, we continued to find different religions in the Western world that do have aspects of spirit possession. We agreed that Native religions believe in spirit possession. Even Christianity sees the aspect of speaking in tongues as something that happens when the Holy Ghost enters your body and speaks out in the heavenly language. These are two predominant forms of spirit possession in our culture, and they have not necessarily been judged negatively. We also took note of other forms of evangelism in Canada such as speakers who rent out huge auditoriums so that people can come see them and can be healed. I think this has made all forms of religion that are so scientifically unexplainable seem even more intangible. When something such as spirit possession is made into a big theatrical performance, it takes away any sincerity and belief that people may have once had in it. Irene then asked the question whether we are moving towards a culture that believes in spirit possession. We began to discuss many people such as John Edwards who has his own show called “Crossing Over,” where he interacts with the dead, and Sylvia Brown, who makes frequent appearances on different talk shows. These people are not seen as being mentally insane; they are actually popular enough to be on television shows which means that they are in demand by much of North America. In the end, the first part of the question was still left undecided because we did not agree that an answer could be given to a question that we did not believe was correct. The second part of the question we answered truthfully. We all agreed that a person who exhibited symptoms of “spirit possession” in North American would be seen as insane. Apart from the few exceptions noted earlier in this paragraph, most people would not be taken seriously. I do not think that most of us would see any form of “spirit possession” as a symptom that the person should be a shaman. The first thoughts to run through our mind would not be that the “possessed” have been chosen to be the voice of god, or to heal the sick, rather our first thoughts would be to get the person to a hospital. As open minded as we may try to be, “spirit possession” in North America is only seen in a positive light when someone does it in the proper atmosphere that is seen as reliable.
The second question we discussed was, “what is it about shamanism, do you think, as opposed to the other religious traditions we’ve studied in this class, that makes it a realm in which women can succeed and become prominent?” We began this discussion by looking at a couple lines from our first reading Wangsimni-Mansin by Y.K. Harvey. On page 23 Harvey states that:
“On a subsequent visit, I asked her to fill out the family census sheet for me. Noticing that she had put down only her mother and herself, with herself as the household head, I asked her about her brother and his family. Ordinarily, he would have been considered the household head… I realized that one of the two nameplates up on the front door was hers. It is most unusual for a woman to put her name plate up on the front door, for generally only the name of the male household head appears there.”
We decided that in Shamanism, women seem to be considered much more a part of the family than in other religions. Heather compared Confucianism to Shamanism by showing that in Confucianism the woman was always thought of as “temporary” in her immediate family. In other religions the woman marries into the husband family, and although this was the case for these women, they still seem to be much more a part of their natal family and their new family. Tessy noted that it seemed more matrilineal because daughters or daughter-in-laws could take over their mother or mother in laws business. Women in many religions are not even aloud to play a part in the religion except for whatever they can give as a layperson. We also took into consideration that in the stories, the women Mudangs were the main source of income. The males in the household were either unemployed, or had businesses that were loosing money. This gave authority and power to the women because they were the breadwinners. We all agreed that because women were most often Shamans, Shamanism catered to women and is a religion that is willing and able to use women as its religious authority figure.
Our discussion, as always, was extremely thourough and went much deeper into the questions then what was actually written out for us. I had difficulty analyzing such a religion because unlike the others, I had no background knowledge of it. Furthermore I found that the two readings I had read, did not give an ample account of what Shamanism is all about. As far as my perspective goes, it seems that Shamanism is a religion based in smaller perhaps more impoverished societies and therefore this gives women the ability to succeed and overcome the prejudices against them. Also, because Shamanism does not force the woman out of the household away from her duties, she is able to properly raise and nurture a family as well as fulfill her religious duties as a Shaman.
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April 2nd, 2004
11:16 pm - shamanism
Recorder: Heather Nelson
Group members present: Alex Schindel, Irene Iakossavas, Leanne Ramirez, Tessy John,
Heather Nelson
Required Text Reading: Harvey, chapters two and four from ‘Six Korean Shamans’ (in binder)
Shamanism
There are various components belonging to Shamanism which differ in understanding between both Western and Eastern perspectives. An example of this difference is found in the question in which our group first chose to embark on. All of our eyes were drawn to the fourth question consisting of two parts which asked, “how can we, as people from a culture that typically does not believe in spirit possession interpret the shaman’s possession sicknesses? How would a person who exhibited such symptoms of ‘spirit possession’ in North America be understood?” It is obvious that the first part of the question is addressing the western perspective by essentially saying ‘the western world does not believe in spirit possession’. This was seen as problematic by the group members and myself and we could not further analyze the question as a whole until we understood what was meant by this comment about North America.
North America definitely believes in the occurrence of some sort of ‘spirit possession’ however, the manner in which it displays itself in culture and religion does differ from the East. Is this to say then that because we do not see spirit possession on the same level of intensity that some Eastern cultures do, we therefore ‘typically do not believe in it at all?’ I felt this was a huge generalization that needed to be corrected. Irene shared her view by saying that spirit possession essentially holds negative connotations attached to an individual who is suffering and that this individual is, in any culture, seen as in need of being fixed. I found this to be true in western and eastern cultures because both do attribute negativity with the mental/physical illness to come from spirit possession. For in Shamanism, it is precisely spirit possession in patients that the two female Shamans, Halmoni and Wangsimni-mansin, in chapter two of ‘Six Korean Shamans’ attempt to heal. As well as, in western cultures, if someone is seen as “possessed by a spirit”, they are in desperate need of a healer such as a priest /doctor or psychologist. Leanne basically suggested here that “western culture is typically dominated by science” and approaches spirit possession differently by not using shamans but other kinds of healers. In response to Leanne’s comment Tessy replied that “our culture isn’t typically anything” and “spirit possession is not necessarily bad or good.” At this point in our discussion Tessy’s view made me re-question my own thoughts on spirit possession as being merely negative. Her comment influenced me to think that perhaps some positive can come out of such an experience. Irene expressed that from what she has experienced, religious healers always seemed theoretical and unreal to her. The group agreed and I made the comparison of the shaman rituals, seen in the video, as being a scripted scene. I also added that it shared a similarity with “healing as theoretical” seen in Christianity which Irene was speaking of prior to my comment. I asked the question, “if this is so, is it far to view the majority of religious rituals as performance?” The response from Leanne, Tessy, Irene, and Alex was that my assumption in question took away from some of the respect that should be given to the shamans who are looked upon as “masters of ecstasy”. Irene pointed out that one does not have a relationship with a psychologist like they would with a Shaman. She further stated that shamans put more of an emphasis on spirituality whereas Alex strongly felt that some counselors do incorporate spirituality into their work with the use of energy’s and even massages.
Moving on from this point, Leanne used the example of a contemporary western spiritual advisor/healer, John Edward’s who developed his own television show called “Crossing Over” based on his spiritual readings. We all agreed that he is making a huge profit in making people believe in his performance. I believe that whether he speaks of truth or not, he is still performing a kind of modern ritual behind the camera. Leanne, specifically mentioned that she does not believe in John Edward’s and that he does not deserve the respect that the shamans should be given. We reached the agreement that, as a group, we believe ‘spirit possession’ does exist in North America and one example is seen in films and the media in general. One film we spoke of was ‘the Exorcist’ and how some people in the west do believe it to be a film commenting on real experiences. Therefore, North American’s would interpret the shaman’s possession sicknesses, in overlooking some cultural differences, as being very similar to the image we see and hear about in our own personal experiences as well as in what the media presents to us.
In response to how a person who exhibited such symptoms of ‘spirit possession’ would be understood, we thought it necessary to look at the differences in how the west and the east label individuals suffering from symptoms connected to our topic. If for example someone was experiencing hallucinations in North America, they may be labeled as “crazy” or “insane” and in need of medical assistance. This shares a similarity with the east with Shamanism viewing the symptom of hallucinations as an illness with a stigma surrounding it. But there is a difference that I believe Shamanism points out very vividly. The difference is that shaman’s seem to view this ‘stigma’ as perhaps, something belonging to a particular right of passage that one must experience in the process of becoming a shaman. This is not the case in North America. I believe that this can apply to any of the three types of ‘shaman status seekers’, being “hereditary transmission, spontaneous selection of ‘call’, or personal choice and quest.” Thus, it follows that the healing process would also be apart of this right of passage that one must pass through in order to become a shaman. Our group reached the consensus that in North America a person with such symptoms would be most commonly viewed as having a mental illness.
In moving onto the second question our group chose to discuss, we decided to look at number two which asked, in relation to other religions, “what makes Shamanism a realm in which women can succeed and become prominent?” Leanne was surprised how in Shamanism men were not ever regarded as a permanent part of the family. For example: on page twenty-three of chapter two in “Six Korean Women”, it says that in the case of Halmoni and Wangsimni-mansin, the brother of the family who ordinarily would have been the household head, was considered by the two shaman women to be “temporary”. Leanne’s comment led me to show a contrast of Confucianism with Shamanism. I explained how in Confucianism it was always the daughter who was deemed as “temporary” in her immediate family structure. She was to marry out of her family and join another, this being the family of her husband. Tessy gave us another example of how in Shamanism the mother is usually the shaman. She felt that it seemed naturally lineal to become a shaman if your mother was one. This highly differed in relation to the other religious traditions studied with the son or younger male figure usually being the one “taking over the father’s business”. Irene stated that “you don’t need to circum to poverty” just because a women is the household head. Furthermore, she added, in the case of Halmoni, “she was the breadwinner” and seemed successful. We all agreed with Irene’s comment, and Leanne said both the brother and father in chapter two were “totally dependent on the two shamans for their support.” Tessy and Irene stated that because women are more commonly shaman’s or inheritor’s, they are given more authority and higher status. From there commentary I found myself agreeing and coming to the conclusion that in Shamanism women commonly given a higher classification within society. The examples given are what our group mutually agreed make Shamanism a realm in which women can prominently succeed.
My evaluation of the group discussion is extremely high. I thoroughly enjoyed working with all the members and hearing/sharing our idea’s and interpretations. Each member articulated their different types of insights well and generated views which influenced my own. After this discussion I am left thinking that there are many similarities as well as differences which steam from the comparison made between western and eastern perspectives on Shamanism. Thanks everyone! I’ll miss working with you!
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March 26th, 2004
05:51 pm - Confucianism - Irene Iakossavas
Present: Leanne and Irene (group 3)
Guests: Jen and Monica (group 9)
Kelleher, “Confucianism” (in Women in World Religions)
Li, “Some Thoughts on Confucianism and Ecofeminism” (in binder)
Today’s discussion was based on Confucianism. The focus was more specifically on the role of women in this religion.
Leanne and I were the only ones present from Three and a Half but we had the ABSOLUTE pleasure of being joined by Monica and Jen from Group 9 – their members were absent from today’s lecture and discussion, also. I had the benefit of being joined by two members who had already reported their blogs and who were comfortable enough to offer input throughout the hour. I was a tad bit nervous about this (my first blog) but they were nice enough to tell me what format to follow and reassured me not to worry. Thanks, Monica and Jen!
The readings that were discussed this week were both informative. However, the reading from the text book provided a better understanding of the overall concepts found in Confucianism. It also went into detail on the expectations placed on women, especially when marrying, and portraits of what a ‘good’ Confucian woman is versus a ‘bad’ one. I got the impression that from the stories, the moral was that a woman often ought to sacrifice her own well-being. Ironically enough, to sacrifice that, guarantees that a woman will live a good life. The bad women were the epitome of selfishness and vanity.
The second reading was from the binder and dealt with Ecofeminism and Confucianism. In it, the author argues against Western thought that Christianity is the source of ecological disaster and the Westerner’s belief that preserving the environment can be found in the East.
The class was shown a very powerful movie: Nu Shu, A Hidden Language of Women in China. As Leanne pointed out it was still ‘fresh in our minds’ and so our discussion focused on the video. Of course, we went back to the readings to support points.
Leanne and I began to discuss our overall impressions with the film. When who arrived, but Jen and Monica! I was relieved to have more input. Two people cannot have that much of a rounded discussion so with Monica and Jen we were guaranteed more input and different interpretations on the role of women in Confucianism. We continued discussing the film.
We began to talk mostly on the idea of widowhood. They were not allowed to remarry even if she was a young woman. Staying single, and honouring her dead husband always induced poverty, isolation and neglect. The image of the widow who lived in the house without a back wall was still fresh in our minds. She had been a widow from her twenties and now lived alone, and was in poor health. She was translated as saying that she was the only one of the original seven sisters of Nu Shu that was still alive – it was sensed that she wished for death.
We all agreed that the women all seemed to suffer so much from isolation that their sisterhood was imperative to keeping them alive. I guess from a socialist standpoint, I then noted that instead of supporting a widow while she was still alive, the government would build a magnificent and probably expensive arch when she died to honour her chastity. Personally, western perspective or not, I think that is a useless way to spend government money. As always, religion has such a hold on the culture…or is it the other way around?
Monica then asked questioned where the origin of Nu Shu came from. She pointed out that most women were illiterate and didn’t have access to education, so how could the letters be based on the Chinese language? My question was how did they know how to even begin to write if they didn’t know what written language was, and how did they teach others, who taught others who were not nearby? So we all naturally began to refer to the movie. Since no one in the movie had an answer to the origin of Nu Shu, Leanne and I thought that the theory regarding the embroidery was really interesting.
Monica made a really interesting point. She stated that most people would say that Nu Shu is based on Chinese letters because saying so would deny the intelligence and creativity of Chinese women. I did not say so during the discussion, but Monica is probably right in her assumption. It made sense that a patriarchal society would want to ‘put a lid’ on the origin of Nu Shu and what it exactly was. As seen in the Ten Year Cultural Revolution, Nu Shu texts were burned. I suppose this was a way to take power away from the women who became independent of the Chinese language. That may seem like a truly feminist observation, but Monica’s insight into the topic seemed logical.
We then went on to the topic of Chinese foot-binding. This is a topic all of us have heard about before. I though thought it was interesting to see it from this movie’s point of view. We all saw it as a painful and unnecessary practice. The widows in the village viewed foot-binding as an obstacle to providing for herself and her family. Besides the fact that it was painful, it just was not practical at all.
Leanne touched on this briefly when wondering aloud how they expected the women to walk in such tiny shoes. She then recalled the widow who resisted foot-binding and put it into a modern perspective. How could she resist it if foot-binding began when a girl was too young to object to her parent’s wishes? Also, that if she did object, parents don’t often take a child’s misgivings about a situation seriously. If a child doesn’t want to go somewhere, that parent usually forces the child anyway. After all, we’ve all been there.
Jen pointed out that a child versus the adolescent is different. True, a five year old child may not be able to defend herself, but a 12 or 13 year old can.
We also tackled the subject of domestic abuse against women. We noted that it was a ‘norm’ embedded in society. The school-teacher who was the guide, noted that he heard ‘there is nothing more evil than a woman’s heart.’ It is interesting that it was a teacher, a member of society who should be more learned, and consequently, I had hoped, a person who would be more progressive in his views of gender equality.
We then approached the second discussion topic regarding sisterhood. Is it based on shared victimization or is the bonding based on shared strengths? Jen did not want to come off as negative, but she felt that the sisterhood found among the women who practiced Nu Shu was based more on victimization, because there was so much suffering that the women all shared. The women were all struggling with the same thing.
I put in that this sisterhood was based on survival. Leanne stated that it wasn’t too negative, because without the victimization there would be no sisterhood. Monica then reminded us what the contents of their songs were. Most of these songs seemed to focus on the misery the women felt, and how double standards existed between brother and sister. Girls were expected to learn domestic skills and boys were encouraged to get an education. I was confused what the “attic” was (it was referred to in the songs.) I was not sure if it was a metaphor or an actual location. Monica and Leanne both informed me that it was a place where Chinese Confucian women spent their time
I elaborated on the idea of sisterhood and agreed with Jen that it was based on shared victimization. All these women could understand another woman’s situation because for example, they were all taken from their homes, and beaten etc. They could all share the same experiences. Jen talked about empowerment, or ‘fighting back’ against expectations from them. She mentioned how the made their embroidery into much more, transforming it into art. She also elaborated on another form of empowerment – sewing of the underwear to the clothing. Monica added that it was a way to gain one more day of independence from her husband. This was a form of resistance to the new husband, a way to say ‘no.’
Leanne always tries to put things in a first-person perspective. She did not totally believe that the sisterhood was a result of being “victims.” I don’t know if I’m going to get this right, but she supposed that if we were to ask the women if they were victims they would probably say no, but admit that there are some things that are wrong with the system. Leanne, correct me if you want.
I thought it was interesting the way the film contrasted two villages together. One village had a more female friendlier gender dynamic. Men and women mingled together freely. In the next village, there were strict rules. I found it fascinating that kilometers between people in the same country could produce two different outlooks. Geography seemed to play an important part. I suppose it’s different from an industrialized nation that has sophisticated communication technology and can transmit cultural values until they become shared by the majority.
I took knowledge from my women’s studies course, and stated that whatever the basis for this sisterhood, it was probably more stable then so-called ‘sisterhood’ in the Western world. Feminist literature has shown me that not all women can be ‘sisters’ because we all have our own battles to fight. It is a much more fragmented concept: the white woman versus the black woman; the able-bodied versus the disabled. Probably due to geography and a fairly homogeneous population, these women probably all had similar up-bringing and similar obstacles, as exemplified in their songs that Monica mentioned earlier. The songs recall double-standards that all these women experienced.
Monica added that Nu Shu wasn’t really about social reform. These women weren’t trying to change their status. I agreed with Monica. It was more about survival and “keeping yourself together.” We both thought this was probably a more genuine form of sisterhood because it was about supporting each other and being there for each other as opposed to preoccupying oneself with fighting against the system.
We then went on to talk about oppressed societies. Jen pointed out that these women were feminists in their own way because they were re-writing, re-conceiving and re-constructing their own history. It seemed to me like a grassroots organization. Leanne compared these Confucian women to Buddhist women and the double-standards that both women faced.
On a closing note, there was a general consensus that the Nu Shu sisterhood was an empowering act on behalf of women who were denied rights that women in ‘civilized’ societies take for granted. We were all really touched by the relief that friends brought to each other when they were together and the hardships that they all shared. I am willing to admit my ignorance regarding women in developing countries. Before this film, I believed that women in villages were docile and accepted their status unquestioningly, and focused on their duties to their family. Especially Confucian women as the family was revered and a woman was supposed to do whatever she could to maintain the happiness and health of her brood. This movie showed me the other side and opened up my eyes.
On a closing note, I’d like to thank everyone for their input. I noticed that when I listen to our discussion, it seemed that Leanne and I talked too much. I hope you girls felt you had your say on the subject of women in Confucianism. If not, remember, feel free to post a comment telling me where I went wrong! And pointers help!
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March 19th, 2004
07:58 pm - Female Representation in Taosim
Recorder: Heather Nelson
Group members present: Alex Schindel, Irene Iakossavas, Leanne Ramirez, Tessy John,
Heather Nelson
Required Text Reading: Barbara E. Reed’s “Taoism” in Women in World Religions
Female Representation in Taoism
Our group discussion on the topic of Taoism began shortly after the class quiz on Buddhism. Our conversation began with us briefly questioning, “how can the female representations in Taoism be beneficial for women when it merely recreates and teaches the traditional stereotypes of the female being “weak and lowly”?
In contrast, we agreed that Taoism is unique in being one of the first religions which places such a high emphasis on the importance of women in any given community. From this point, we attempted to answer the first question which dealt with the sources of inspiration and empowerment that Taoism can offer to women.
Alex began by stating that in respect to Chinese textures, there is commonly no “him” or “her” used in language. Thus this can also be said to be the case in the neutral standpoint of gender in Taoism. She continued in saying that both Hinduism and Buddhism respectively, focus more on the male as the dominant and the female as subordinate. We all agreed that Taoism does not follow the Hindu and Buddhist method of teaching opposition. Irene added that “this religion is different from others because here the female is the model for its basis”. Tessy agreed in saying that “Taoism welcomes both female and male energy’s in uniting the two genders”. To extend off from Tessy’s comment, I wish to discuss the significance of Yin and Yang. With the Yin representing a feminine energy of coldness, darkness, and softness and in contrast the Yang symbolizing masculine energy of warmth, light, and hardness, one may be fooled in believing that the Yin and Yang exist in a dualism of opposition. This misconception steams from the influence of the Westernized obsession with opposition. However, I brought into the conversation the idea of how Yin and Yang is more of a complimentary dualism, with both sides being necessary for the others existence. Furthermore, one is not superior over the other. I said that this was placing the female image under a very positive light, except that the women is still being viewed as “soft” and the man as “hard” which can furthermore be translated into “women are weak and men are strong”. Here Irene brought up her concern that, as a religion, it is still very stereotypical in a traditional sense of thinking about women in differentiating between both women and men. This veered our discussion back to our original idea of the negative existing representations of women in Taoism and how there are still negative connotations attached to women and their existence in society. Essentially, we eventually arrived at an agreement that as a religion, Taoism is trying to create a positive image of equality between the two sexes, however, as mentioned, women are being portrayed as the weaker gender. I added to the discussion that the main goal of Taoism is to become one with the Tao. As mentioned in lecture, “Creativity comes from a position of weakness and flexibility”, which is commonly associated with the women. Therefore, Taoism teaches that the traditional and natural way of the women (stereotypically) is the correct way to live one’s life. This places the female into an extremely positive, valued realm where she is associated with mother nature (the physical world) and the rest of the universe.
Ultimately, a Taoist’s aim is to harmonize human life which will only be accomplished if they follow and attempt to imitate natural female creativity. Only then will people understand their own bodies and be one with the universe. We agreed that it is a difficult issue to discuss because Taoism has done much good for the value of women in Eastern societies. Women are given a higher status and looked upon differently by men and therefore feel empowerment. However, the consensus between the group was that we feel “she” is still being tied down to unnecessary stereotypes, which if not eliminated, will always bind “her” to being one specific image. This is the image of “weakness” and “softness”, thus making her appear inferior.
After this heavy discussion on women and representation, the second question was far more simple for us to approach. The question asked to look at a quote taken from Reed in her book “Women and World Religions”, speaking of the “role traditionally ascribed to women in society” and how it is the positions of women that lead to creative power rather than “positions of strength, hardness or superiority”.
In imagining a society which values this type of power seems inconceivable but possible. Tessy, first expressed her views that “weakness” could be associated with being humble. She said, “there is no status among people in Tao” and “this could steam from you being lowly… but that doesn’t mean you are necessarily weak. You are lowly yet powerful.” At this time she used a quote that was meaningful to the rest of the group members. She said, “the mink will inherit the earth and this is true to what we are”. Essentially, I took this comment as being a powerful metaphor in understanding Taoism. The mink is the weak creature in nature and will inherit the earth, just as we are to be people of “humbleness” if we wish to be one with our bodies, nature, and the universe. Irene agreed but questioned, “how can you have power if you are considered weak?” I responded, not answering her question by framing my own in asking, “is the focus not on the physical body and the way you use it?” Tessy felt that being weak is what makes you strong. She used the example that “if you were weak you could not study Taoism” because it involves continuous trials of heavy meditation. This requires much mental strength. We all agreed that Taoism is aimed to end all warfare and conflict. Leanne added that if one is weak and flexible they can take more action.
In answering to what kind of society we would live in if positions of weakness were positions of power, Tessy and Irene said that we would not have the need to invade other countries as a way to solve problems. I agreed in thinking of myself as a pacifist and how pacifism does not necessarily categorize one as someone who takes no-action but as someone who does take action, but by using a different approach which involves more discussion, philosophy, and less violence. Leanne believes that there would be no need for superiority and dominance and overall it would be a calmer and more peaceful existence for humanity. Tessy and Alex shared their agreement with Leanne in saying that if you focus on the passion and moderation of Taoism, there will be less war. For example: Especially when looking at the issues presently attached to the United States of America. Tessy brought our discussion to a close when she stated “therefore if position’s of weakness were valued as power in society, then we would be more in touch with the universe!”
I felt that overall, our group touched upon some very informative questions and ideas about women and Taoism. Each group member participated equally and helped broaden each others understanding of the two questions. The issues being addressed are extremely complex but I feel our group took a effective approach in deconstructing our understanding of women in Taoism. I believe everyone left with a more lucid idea of Taoism and its relation to female representation!
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March 14th, 2004
01:22 pm - Buddhism -Tuedsay March 9/2004
Recorder: Tessy A John 990113033
Class # 9 Blog Discussion of Buddhism
Readings: Buddhism After Patriarchy Ch 4,5
Breaking Through the Concrete
The first reading gives a historical account of the early formations of Buddhism and its transformation into its three distinct forms. The reading critically analyses the very well known story about The Buddha’s reluctance to allow women to found a nuns order of worldly renunciation. Buddha’s reluctance of the allowance of nuns into the monastic life is often viewed as highly controversial. If one were to only focus on this part of the record, one could easily assume Buddhism as being exceedingly andocentric and rooted in the notions of patriarchy. However, this is a misconception because it is well known that women have a role in the Buddhist life. Women are just as capable as men of attaining the goals of Buddhism. Gross states that the Buddha had never stated that women could not achieve peace. The author states that in analyzing this passage of the Buddha’s reluctance to found the nuns order it is important to keep in mind the status of men and women at the time. That is to say that the Buddha’s reluctance could very will be connected to the very conservative values and traditions that were relevant at the time. After all, Buddhism as a religion came into being approximately five hundred years before Christ. The author also offers the explanation that the reason for this perceived reluctance was simply because homelessness was to unconventional a lifestyle for women to take up. The thought of women without ties to the social world and families was too difficult a concept to conceive and understand.
Once a nun was ordained into the sangha, all of her actions were governed by the monks. This gender hierarchy allows for monks to have complete power and control over the nuns. The author states that the eight special rules that the nuns order must undertake is an institutional subordination and does not impede the spiritual life of a nun.
Further on in the text Gross suggests that this story is not part of what she calls the usable Buddhist past. That is to say that this story is unsuited for basic and fundamental Buddhists values. Instead Gross suggest that there are other teachings and writings that declare certain women to be experts in meditation and teaching. Furthermore, if we are to use the story of the reluctance to found the nuns order, Gross suggests that we focus on the fact that Buddha listened to the advice and arguments of a group of women. Thereby changing his mind in spite of the dominant male oriented anti women public view.
There are many positive images of women in the Buddhist text. The author highlights a few of them within the article. One of the most important according to the Therigatha is that The Buddha often taught laywomen and nuns directly and praised them for their generosity and achievements.
In chapter five of the readings, the author discusses the role of women in Mahayana Buddhist texts. Most importantly is the discussion of the ability of individuals to change sex. In these texts, men often challenged women to change their sex in order to prove her level of spiritual attainment. The significance of these texts is that it highlights the notion of impermanence. That is to say that permanence does not exist. There is no object on this earth that that has innate characteristics. In human beings, there is no essence of what that human being is. With regard to the discussion of gender, there are no innate characteristics that make up males and females. Gender is not static or fixed but instead fluid and ever changing.
The final article that we read for this discussion was the article by Linda Ruth Cutts entitled Breaking Through the Concrete. This article was a sort of auto biography about the life of the author and the life events that caused her to follow the practices of Zen. This practice comes from the third stage of Buddhism known as Tantra or Vajrayana. One of the biggest differences in this movement from the Mahayana beliefs is that the practitioner is encouraged to use emotions to access innately pure parts of the mind. Mahayana Buddhist on the other hand believe that followers are to rid themselves of all raw emotion. The author describes in detail the painful feelings and emotions that she had locked away for so many years. Through what she calls mindfulness she was able to remember her pain and work her way through her troubles. Cutts states that this practice has a particular importance for women. Due to the way that this society and culture are structured women often put the needs of others before their own. By doing this women often forget how take care of themselves. For this reason is important for women to listen to their bodies in order to take care of the physical, mental and spiritual needs.
Discussion:
The first question that we decided to tackle was “What is the message of the sex change motif in Mahayana Buddhist texts?” I said that the Mahayana texts are important and very different from many of the other religious texts studied in the course thus far. In these texts women can attain and accomplish all the same spiritual gifts as men can. Irene in agreement stated that both males and females can achieve enlightenment. I pointed out that in comparison to the more conservative model of Buddhism along with many other religions the role of women is not fixed but is ever changing, women can even achieve Buddhahood. However, it is important to state that in fact, a gender barrier does not really exist. Alex agreed stating that in all things there exists no man or women at all. Irene supported these two ideas when she said that form does not determine who you are. In discussing this question as a group we conceded that the message of sex change motif was on two folds. Firstly, that in essence there is no gender. There is nothing that can be said to be specific determinants of gender these are mere appearances of what we think we perceive because everything around us is impermanent. The second message is related to the first of impermanence and that is the notion of emptiness which is an extension of impermanence. In Buddhism nothing is inherently anything. Women cannot be viewed as impure and an impediment to a persons spiritual enlightenment because their female bodies can be changed. In reality, nothing is inherent in anything but only in relation to other things which are also impermanent.
The next topic of discussion was the question regarding whether we think it is appropriate to adopt only certain portions of the historical record as “useable” and reject the rest? We did not get to spend a great deal of time on this question and only one person was really able to respond due to lack of time. For this reason, I will state what the group member said and put in my own response to the answer. Alex seemed to think that it is appropriate for different sects to take what texts they deem appropriate to make their points. I on the other hand tend to disagree. When taking up a religion it is important to study and understand all the concepts within that religion. For example, as a Christian it would be easy for me to take only specific parts of the Bible and use these parts to justify my own actions. For example in the Old Testament the passage that says it is appropriate to live by the passage “an eye for and eye.” By living only by these words I could think it appropriate to stone everyone that has ever done harm to me. This is clearly not an acceptable way to live my life. It is only in reading other passages in the Bible that I as a Christian realize that this is not the appropriate action to take. When reading historical texts, it is important to remember the time period for which it was written, and who did the writing. The Bible is not the written word of God. In the same way, the Buddhists texts are not the written word of The Buddha. In both of these cases, the texts were written by some third party, an interpreter if you will that is usually a male. There can be no guarantee that the writers of given texts clearly understood the message of their own spiritual head. For this reason texts should be used as a form of guidance in order for an individual to find their own way. Texts should not be viewed as the law on how to practice your faith, but instead as a template to guide you on your own spiritual journey.
Buddhism as a spiritual practice was light years ahead of its time with regard to its interpretations of gender. It is amazing for me to think that centuries ago individuals came to the realization that gender is not a fixed biological trait. The teachings in this religion can serve to help the community of gays and lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered individuals in their struggle for equality by reiterating the fact that in essence there is no gender.
Our discussions on this topic as well as thus far in the course have been progressing very well. Our group has found a comfort level with one another that allows us to converse freely our opinions and feelings. Everyone within the group is open to new ideas and welcomes the thoughts and attitudes of others. Our only problem so far is the fact that sometimes we are not able to spend as much time as we would like discussing certain topics. We find that we have to hurry through the questions in order to answer most of them. Other than that, I find that all our group members are happy and excited to discuss and everyone arrives prepared.
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March 6th, 2004
05:11 pm - Buddhism
February 24th, 2004
BUDDHISM
Present: Alex Schindel, Irene Iakossavas, Heather Nelson, Leanne Ramirez, Tessy John
Recorder: Alex Schindel
Texts: Salgado, “Unity and Diversity Among Buddhist Nuns in Sri Lanka”
Duc, “Dam Luu: An Eminent Vietnamese Buddhist Nun”
Jamin, “Prison Work for a Korean Nun”
Myohi, “A Korean Nun Teacher of Elderly Women”
Optional: “Nuns of the Buddhist Traditions”
Buddhism is our topic for this week and next. With all of us present, we had a qualitative discussion with a wide range of opinions on each of the questions. Since the lecture went over time and class ended early, it only gave us half an hour to discuss the four questions. We spent the majority of the time analyzing the first question.
The first question had to do with Buddha’s statement that the true Dhamma will only last five hundred years now that women have been ordained instead of a thousand years. We understood that there was no correct answer to the analysis of this passage of scripture because it is still under scrutiny. We took this question apart bit by bit by answering other relevant questions first. As usual, or conversation started a bit stereotypically and with a Western bias. We focused first on Buddha himself. Irene thought he was a chauvinist pig or that his words were chauvinist. If Buddhism was supposed to be the middle way, and the way for all beings then why is this saying so sexist? Tessy pointed out that the Buddha’s discrimination against women could have to do with his remembrance of his last night in the palace when he was surrounded by naked women, and his disgust of the harem. I asked the question “why then would he accept them into the Samgha if he knew it would ruin the true Dhamma of Buddhism?” This led us to the opinions we had on what this passage might mean. Taking into account Irene’s first view of the Buddha and Buddhism as chauvinist we could come to a conclusion that women were to be blamed for the fall of the true Dhamma and Buddhism. Therefore if this true Dhamma did disappear, it would have nothing to do with the monks in the Samgha, just the women, and the monks accusations could be backed up with this scripture. This can be seen in other religious thought. In most religions women are or have been seen as temptation for men. Their bodies have been beautified by scripture and have been the cause for men’s spirituality to dwindle. Men did not take blame for their own actions and their own lustful thought, but instead blamed their lack of spiritual strength on an outside force: women. I said that the given years in the scripture, a thousand years to five hundred, should not be taken literally. We all agreed that this time line given should be analyzed just to mean that with women involved in the Samgha, the true Dhamma would not be around as long. From here we asked then, why this true Dhamma would be shortened because of the assimilation (???) of women. Going back to the point about women as temptation, this could be the cause of the fall of the true Dhamma. We then focused on the word ‘true,’ in the scripture reading. Tessy brought up the point that with women assimilated (???) into the Samgha; they will bring in their own interpretations of scriptures, sutras, and the role of dharma. We agreed that Buddhism may not fall as a religion, it hasn’t yet and shows no signs of falling, but perhaps the TRUE Dhamma has been lost in a wave full of unique and abstract interpretations.
The reading for question two was optional and no one had read it. Therefore instead of spending time analyzing a question we would not be able to give a knowledgeable and adequate answer to, we decided to move moved on to question number three.
Question number three asked us how the portrayal of Buddhist restrictions on women found in classical texts compared to how Buddhist women actually engage in their religion. The classical texts focused on the rules set for both the nuns and the monks. Women were given many more rules then the men. Although it was a form of protection for the women, it also held them back from being able to take part in the community. However, the readings contradicted the social restrictions that are supposedly placed on women. Going back to question one, where Tessy pointed out that women may interpret the Dhamma their own way, Irene thought that maybe this was the bases as to why Buddhist women seem much freer in our readings than in classical texts. With modernized world views, and changed views on women, Buddhist nuns have gone out of the Samgha and taken part in the social world. Heather brought up a good example from the reading about how Buddhist nuns seem to even go a step beyond in their work outside the Samgha. She talked about the women in the article “Prison work for a Korean Nun” by Jamin, and how she went to speak in a prison about Dharma for just one session. However, by the end of her lecture she had touched the prisoners so deeply that many cried and began their self-examination and reflection. Instead of just doing that one lecture and not thinking about them again like most lecturers would do, she began to counsel them. She did not pass judgment on them and was able to have relationships with people outside the Samgha that were more intimate than we would expect. Therefore, in order to understand the lives and restrictions placed on Buddhist women, we cannot just look at the scriptures but must look also at real life stories of Buddhist women.
Finally we answered the last question about how much effect religious texts have on people’s lives. Leanne pointed out that it all depended on the religion and the person. We all found this question a bit unreasonable because every person in any religion uses classical religious scripts to a different extent and takes what they want from these texts. Therefore, it is impossible to conclude a certain extent to which classical religious texts and doctrines affect all people’s lives. Tessy brought up the fact however, that no person is able to follow classical religious texts perfectly; everyone will take what they want from their religion and discard what they don’t find important. Irene then added that they follow what is in the text that is convenient, what will not put too many restrictions on their lives. Religious doctrines therefore are only as relevant as one wants them to be in their life. The point of religious doctrines we decided is to use as a foundation for society and religion. Tessy believes that every society needs rules, and these religious texts and doctrines act as rules for society. I pointed out that different sects in a religion have taken these scriptures and analyzed them in their own way; therefore they have acted as a foundation for different schools of beliefs and different ways for people to run their lives. Finally, we decided that all of this is relevant to the study of women in religion because how someone interprets what role women have or are supposed to have changes the lives of these women. Some Buddhist schools think women cannot obtain enlightenment and should not teach men, and these women are placed in a subordinate position. However, other schools analyze the text and see that sex does not matter in the attainment of nirvana, and these women are therefore treated equally. Therefore, the way one interprets doctrine and text has a dramatic effect on the lives of women.
At the end of our discussion, we realized that there are no real answers to any of these questions. Some of us saw religion as the basis of laws, where others did not think that religion needed to play a part in rule making, because society set its own rules. We agreed however that interpretation is the key factor in what roles women will have and have had. We also realized that in order to see what role women do play in Buddhism it is important not only to look at classical texts, but to examine women independently from these scriptures through biographies or recovered writings. My thoughts on Buddhism have changed quite a bit. I went from knowing nothing about the religion to understanding at least the outer layer of this religion. Compared to many other religions it seems to be quite egalitarian however, this is all depends on the sect. All in all our discussion was as complete and thorough as time permitted. Each of us contributed equally and brought interesting interpretations into our discussion. Good job Three and a Half, we rock!!!!
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January 30th, 2004
03:16 pm - Jainism - Leanne Ramirez
January 27, 2003 - Jainism
Present: Leanne Ramirez, Tessy John and Irene Iakossavas
Recorder: Leanne Ramirez
Text Required: Balbir, “Women in Jainism,” Kumar, “Jain Ecology” and passages by Meghavijaya
Our topic of the week is Jainism. There were three of the five of us present, but we finally all got the reader and was able to discuss the reading sufficiently. The discussion was also aided by the handouts given by Professor Garrett, which were passages by the Meghavijaya. Of the three questions offered to the group to answer, we decided to answer the first and second (only two were required). We decided against the third question because of time constraints and the fact that none of us could speak legitimately about the situation of women in India around the time that Jainism was developed and flourishing.
Again, the notion of time came up in our discussion. As a group, we find it difficult and problematic to discuss issues such as if Jainism was a favorable alternative for women. This is because there is a significant difference between the history of women and religion, and current women and religion. It would be catastrophic and problematic to confuse the two very different scenarios. This can lead us to two completely different discussions. We decided to address this issue with Professor Garret who said that we could do either the history of women and religion, a contemporary view or a combination of both. With regards to our discussion last week, Hinduism has changed dramatically from then and now, which proved to be the factor, which made it very difficult to discuss the topic at hand. Therefore concluded that we can only consider a situation given a specific time period. My group agreed that we cannot use our western ideologies situated in 2004, and critique something that happened in and around 79 ad. Professor Garret agreed with us but added that it is legitimately possible to do so; however, we would need to be very careful and point out that that is the case. We made note that we are critiquing from a western perspective, and as long as we are conscious that we are doing so, our critique is valid.
The first question, which we were to discuss, was the difference between gender, sexuality and sex according to us, then according to Jainism.
Tessy had the opinion that sex and gender interplay off one another and that they are socially constructed but that she believes that because one can identify with a gender does not mean that one is restricted to it. She also noted that it is not possible to point at another human being and correctly label them a gender. She believed that gender is something that society cannot have control over. It is a personal, individual concept. Gender is not something understood by all.
The question then rose, “What do you think the difference between sexuality and gender is? Our group struggled with this question throughout the entire discussion. Irene claimed that they are not easily identifiable, and that sexuality and gender are constantly changing. She claimed that it referred to orientation rather than to biology.
I said that gender is orientation and agreed with Irene that sex is biology. We agreed that sex refers to genitalia and reproductive organs and gender refers to how we identify with social constructs. Sexuality is something that is “more for you than gender is.” Irene brought the notion that gender is an expectation. For example, based on one’s sex, one is expected to perform like a man or a woman respective of his or her genitalia. They are assigned male or female. Sexuality, claimed Irene, is how you perceive yourself in respect to how other people see you, and that gender is something for yourself. Although it was not verbally expressed, it was understood that in respect to Jainism, gender, sexuality and sex were the same as our conceptions of them.
We then moved on to the question of how the Jain text addresses concepts such as gender, sexuality and sex. We agreed that the Svetambara were very liberal for their time, especially considering the time period in which the Svetambara were established. The Svetambara differed from the Digambara (who are both considered Jains) on two very important issues: 1) the suitability of women taking up a monastic life, and 2) the ability of achieving liberation in a woman’s body. The Svetambara believed that given the two points mentioned, liberation was achievable, while the Digambara believed otherwise. When we consider the belief of the Svetambara today, we consider them to be very liberal. Especially in India and considering it is 79 ad, one would expect the culture would probably not be as tolerant to women’s liberation. This is rare and I was surprised to learn this is the case. However, it is important to note that the philosophy of the Svetambara could be found in scripture that was written by a man (or men) at any time after the Jain Text was established. In respect to the Digambara, who (mistakenly!) believe in rigid notions and errors innate in women, thus excluded women from moksa. This is something that is more common in the history of not just India, but in the history of humanity.
We went off on a tangent about how boring the reading by Balbir was and how it was difficult to get through because of the dryness of the article.
The next notion focused on gender, sexuality and sex and how it relates to identity. I said that these three concepts have played an immense role in one’s life because if constructions of gender were the slightest bit different, one could have a completely different experience of life. We began to discuss the view of the Digambara and how their views are related to the body and physiology of women whereas the Svetambara philosophy considers the psychological part of the women. We noted the double standard specifically with regards to the Digambara who claim that they can rid of certain ailments, but women cannot do so. The main arguments of the Digambara related to the body… the way she looked, clothes she wore… the appearance and biology of the woman, and never the mind of the woman. It was a woman’s biology that prevents her from moksa. We found it interesting to note that the Digambara were finding things that are inherent in both men and women, and using it against women only.
With respect to how our discussion of gender, sexuality and sex in comparison to our common-sense understanding of North American gender identities, I noted that the views of the Digambara were the classic, stereotypical male views of women. This view not only dominated most of India of that time, but it can be assumed that it is the dominant view cross culturally, at any given time. Sexism may not be as overt as it was the time that Jainism was established, but it can be assumed that it is as dominant as it was and is in North America. To discriminate against women based on their biology is not a new concept. The Digambara are not radical in their way of thinking and their view is persistent through time, and found all over the world. It is this type of thinking that passes the blame on the women and encourages the notion that they are innately deviant. Our group also mentioned that the women at the time could not rebel against these notions because a) if you grow up in a world where you only know x, you would never fight for y because you are unaware that that option is available and b) if you knew that option was available for you, it is possible that you could be killed for your beliefs.
Then we discussed the main points of the Digambara’s argument in favor of the exclusion of women and if we found their arguments convincing. We all just laughed at this point and figured that there was no need to justify this question with an answer. We moved on to discuss why this debate was so important. I found that it was significant because the fact that women could not achieve moksa was completely based biological issues. Also, the Digambara had to enforce these beliefs because it is possible that they were intimidated and threatened by women and what they are capable of. Due to the fact that women can go through childbirth, and knowing how painful that could be, can intimidate those who are incapable of doing so. There was slight disagreement on this issue. Others felt that women’s discrimination was due to the fact that women are physically smaller and generally, not as physically strong. This physical inequality is what encouraged discrimination of women. In retrospect, I believe that both notions play a large part in it.
We concluded that the Digambara argument is not convincing from a western perspective. We also found it unfair to comment on the women Jains in 79 ad. and their perspective on women in general. We claimed that we are too ignorant of much of the social and economic factors that dominate India then and now, and therefore concluded that we were not capable of making a valid assessment of how women in India viewed themselves.
This is our fourth class and our group gets along well. We all seem to be comfortable with each other and listening to the views and perspectives of all members in the group. Everyone is very encouraging and positive in our discussions. We all look forward to next week.
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January 23rd, 2004
12:12 am - Hinduism
For the past few lectures, we have been discussing the Asian religion of Hinduism. To date, we have read three papers on the religion. The first paper by Katherine Young served to give us more of a historical and textual analysis of the religion. That is to say, that Young’s analysis focuses on the inception and evolution of the religion along with a broad textual analysis of the roles of women in Vedic texts. In one of the most famous Vedas (Rig Veda), Young says that women are praised for certain qualities like beauty, clothing and ample hips and thighs. She also stated that since many religious practices (at the time) were preformed in the home, women were invited to participate along side their husbands. Young points out that the Vedic texts the Upanishads represent a shift toward asethisim, enlightenment and meditation. Followers of the religion were directed away from highly ritual activities and toward the new concepts of transmigration, karma and moksa. However, women would never be able to achieve the highest enlightenment of moksa, as they would never be able to give up worldly and bodily pleasure. Women are forever obliged to serve their husbands and children. Young then moves from this Ancient Period of the Hindu religion to the Classical or Medieval Period. In the period, the text included the Smrti. This works contained a large selection of text on philosophy and ethics. More importantly, it also included a text called the Stridharma, which details laws by which women should abide. This incorporated the observation of Apotheosis that is the practice by which women revere and worship their husbands as if they were Gods.
Doranne Jacobsen’s article “Golden Handprints and Red-Painted Feet” read more as an ethnography on Hindu childbirth rituals in a specific region of India known as Nimkhera. Jacobsen points out throughout much of the article that although many of the ceremonies performed were for the infant, much of the focus and attention is given to the mother of the newborn child. The significance of these childbirth rituals is important as much of the time Hindu rites and practices can only be preformed by men. Jacobsen also emphasis in this article the cultural pressure placed on women to marry a man and produce children for his family. Through child bearing, a woman finds approval, economic stability (especially if she bears sons) and emotional satisfaction. To have a child in this community is the ultimate joy, and to be without is the ultimate sorrow. Women who are barren are criticized within the community and are believed to have caused themselves to be barren by either previous sins or by being too highly educated.
The article titled “Hinduism” by Vasudha Narayanan reads as both a textual and anthropological analysis of Hindu rituals primarily practiced in South India. Narayan gives a detailed description and analysis of female Hindu dietes and the roles of women Hindu traditions, festivals, the performing arts, weddings and funerals.
Before discussing the question of “what struck you about the status of Hindu women?”, our group found it necessary to address a different topic. It was essential for us to figure out whether we were discussing the role of women in Hinduism historically, based on the Young Article, or whether we were discussing the role of Hindu women in today’s society, as the latter differs greatly from the former. For example, the religious practice of Sati (widow’s who sacrifice their own life’s on the cremation pyre of their late husbands) was, in the Hindu community, seen as a very respectable action to take. It we were to take this religious act and compare it to the modern Western world we could, as Leanne pointed out, only view it as a horrific act of suicide to which women were coerced. Women oblige to this because of the cultural norms within this society. These women most often did not have sons to care for them financially and in their old age. To understand this practice and take a significant stand on whether or not it is an act of religion or suicide would be highly judgmental and ethnocentric to the religions traditional practices. We have no knowledge of what other traditions and cultures of this time called for with regard to the treatment of women. We are also aware of the fact that Hindus no longer follow this practice today just as the act of public stoning is not practiced in most of today’s world cultures and religions. The Hindu religion (just as many others) has changed significantly over time. Alex and Irene both stated and the group agreed that historically speaking, the status of women in Hinduism was probably no different to the status of women cross culturally. That is to say, the Ancient Greeks did not view women as citizens. The status of women is an issue that has only been raised recently. It is an issue that was brought into public view through feminist movements and human rights groups. Please note that this is not to imply that Hindu women have no social status what so ever. The role of women in the domestic sphere (like many other places and religions in the world) was one of extreme importance as they were invaluable to the functioning of daily family life.
The second question that was posed in our discussion group was one that we were unable to address due to time restrictions. For that reason, I will be trying to address the issue from my own personal opinion.
The question, "How does the way we define the boundaries of 'religion' especially influence what we are able to say about women in Hinduism?". Hinduism involves a broad aspect of practices, beliefs and traditions of the Indian subcontinent. When we are studiying the religion it is important to keep in mind that the practices are not only important to the observance of the religion, but also significant to the Indian culture aswell. It is important that we understand Hinduism as a pluralist ideal. What this means is that the religion needs to be viewed as a vast collection of different practices, beliefs, texts and traditions. Under this view, the role of women becomes unbelievably important in many aspects of daily life. Women are able to celebrate and participate in a religion that puts much emphasis on their experiences. For example, domestic activities and the pregnancy. Similarly, women are able to express their understanding and love for the Gods through Classical Indian Dance. The centralist perspective would not allow for women to take an active role within the religion. This view would not allow for women to participate in religious activities or learn about the religion.
This meeting was our first of the semester. It was not easy for us to engage in discussion as we were still feeling out each others personalities and positions. I imagne that by the next meeting we will be more comfortable with each other. For this reason we will be able to discuss in an enviroment where each members voice is heard, different views are explored and we will all depart with a deeper understanding of the views and issues discussed. An excellent first round everyone!!!! See you all next time.
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January 13th, 2004
03:40 pm - we've arrived!
hi girls!
bye girls!
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